Build Brand, Make Profit

Gary Sarner

Gary Sarner is the Founder of ROI360+, a media-buying agency maximizing reach in a competitive landscape through comprehensive media campaigns. As a legal marketing and radio expert, he focuses on developing plans that generate leads for law firms. Gary is also an advisory board member for the University of South Florida Muma College of Business and was a Senior Account Executive for Audacy, Inc.

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Gary Sarner talks about his entry into radio
  • How Gary acquired a talent for radio sales
  • Strategies for leveraging radio to boost business growth
  • The value of branding — and how it drives sales 
  • Gary shares a case study from Bader Scott Injury Lawyers
  • Developing a compelling brand message

In this episode…

Social media and other digital mediums have dominated the marketing landscape. Yet no matter how much they spend on SEO and PPC, many law firms still struggle to generate a steady flow of leads. How can you diversify your marketing efforts to maximize growth?

Passionate radio salesman Gary Sarner says that for personal injury law firms, internet marketing exists at the bottom of the sales funnel. Without a precise branded search, your firm is nearly undiscoverable. Instead, Gary suggests advertising on the radio with three simple but effective resources: your company’s name, expertise, and contact information. By positioning yourself as a recognizable brand, customers are more likely to seek your help.

Luis Scott hosts Gary Sarner, the Founder of ROI360+, on today’s episode of The Guts and Glory Show to discuss radio branding for law firms. Gary shares how to drive sales through radio advertising, the elements of a compelling brand message, and how he acquired a talent for radio sales. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by 8 Figure Firm.

Co-founded by Luis Scott and Seth Bader of Bader Scott Injury Lawyers, 8 Figure Firm helps transform your law firm into a seven-figure or even eight-figure firm.

After their own law firm scaled from $3.5 million to $30 million in annual revenue in just two years, Luis and Seth started 8 Figure Firm to share their strategies and help other law firms achieve exponential growth.

Visit www.8figurefirm.com to receive a consult call and start scaling your business today.

Episode Transcript

Gary Sarner 0:00

Radio is killing the Video Star.

Intro 0:02

No one needs another guru. What you need is real talk real talk from real people, real people who’ve lived it, and breathe it. Get ready to learn the secrets to scale on The Guts and Glory Show with your host, Luis Scott.

Luis Scott 0:25

Hey, guys, my name is Luis, I’m the host of The Guts and Glory Show and welcome to today’s show you’re in for a treat, there is somebody really exciting that I want you to meet and hear from because I believe the strategies that he teaches, and the things that he’s doing in today’s marketplace are changing businesses around the country and around the world. And as you know, The Guts and Glory Show, it’s a show dedicated to helping you learn just a little more so that you can be better and bigger than you were before. So today, I have Gary Sarner from ROI360+, the radio experts and a good friend and mentor of mine and really excited to have him. Gary, welcome to the show.

Gary Sarner 1:04

Luis, thank you so much for having me, this is an honor.

Luis Scott 1:07

Absolutely. Well, I’m excited to talk about some of these secrets, because we met a couple of years ago. And the secrets that you have in your head, completely changed our business. In fact, I can tell a little bit because this is a little bit of the build up for people who are listening, what we did together, in our marketing actually has led to almost growing by 100%. If you’re listening right now 100% In new leads with some of the things that we did together. And so I’m excited not only because it’s benefited my pocket book, but because I believe you’re going to teach us something today, that’s going to unlock this for a lot of people. And a lot of people want to know about marketing, you know, at 8 Figure Firm, we spend a lot of time consulting and coaching people. And when I first started it, I was like, I’m going to be an operations coach. And what I realized is that everybody just wants to know about marketing. And so people want to know how they can get more clients and more leads. And I’m like, yes, we need to know that. But let’s talk about you know, operations and so forth. But today, you’re gonna get what you want. You’re gonna get the more marketing, the more leads and the opportunity to hear about how you can actually grow your business. So, Gary, you know, tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into radio and how you came up with the secret sauce to scaling business.

Gary Sarner 2:28

So it’s actually a fun story. It goes back to my father who was in the consumer electronics business in Atlanta. So I grew up in Atlanta, and he was the biggest radio advertiser in six states in northeast and I grew up once I got a car, I hung out at what is today’s store 94. Back then it was 94 QW exci. Gotcha. And if you ever watched Wk ARP in Cincinnati, that show was done after a guy named Jerry Blum, who ran wq exci. I would go to the radio station after school and just hang out in the studio, probably the third or fourth time I was sitting in with this guy named Craig Ashwood. Australian guy who is the voice of Outback Steakhouse. So I’m sitting there and the program director who’s the person that decides what music is going to be played and how it’s going to be played. In running in with an eight track cart. It wasn’t CDs are digital back then it was at a track guard. I played this song, play this song. He looks at me and he says, In 10 seconds, we’ll know if this is a hit, or nine. And it was Lionel Richie. You are? Yeah. And the phones lit up. Wow, it was all women, no matter but all the men ended up loving that song because the women put it on at night,

Luis Scott 3:57

of course, of course.

Gary Sarner 3:59

And I fell in love with radio. At that moment. I was like, look at how people were so moved by one song and no different today, even with the evolution of TiC tock Instagram, Facebook and social media, which is a part of everybody’s life. When tick tock is breaking music. It’s in snippets, radio stations still play and break new songs, new artists, new songs from an artist you know if Taylor Swift is releasing something on Apple Music, well, people are gonna buy it, but not everybody. So the radio station that’s playing her hit song over and over and over is really what makes it a hit. My love for radio began at 16 When I left college in 1986. I was 20 years old and my dad had a thriving business at I said I want to go into, I grew up in retail, wanting to be in retail. And I got to Miami to work in one of the stores and really learn. It’s been a single store first and three weeks into it. I got a call, Hey, Gary, you want to go back to college? I’m like, not really. I kind of like this. I like what I’m doing. He’s like, Well, I just sold the company, and there’s no employment agreements. So you either go back to college, or you need to go get a job. And Mom and I are moving down to Florida also. So you got to get your own apartment as well. Honest to God, hey, he was very matter of fact, and he was 43 years old at the time. And I called a gentleman who was now running wq exci, who happened to be a neighbor of mine in Atlanta, said to him, I said, Hey, Mark, what is it that you really do? That you don’t work on weekends? Because I saw my dad, he was in retail, building a business, he was always there. And like any great entrepreneur, you’re always on. So I asked this guy, what do you what do you do? And he says, What’s your favorite radio station in Miami? And I tell him why 100. And he told me call as for the local salesman, and I did all the things that he asked me to do. And I couldn’t get this man on the phone. But way back in late 86, early 87, people had secretaries, right. And people had pink paper slips that you got a phone call or message pad, I couldn’t get this guy to call me back. And the woman that worked for Jim, who eventually hired me said, he gets in at 730 in the morning. And he drives a Ford. It was a big Ford. I don’t know what it was. And I showed up at the radio station in February of 87. At 715 Sitting on the stoop, and this big burly grizzly bear guy comes out. And I said, Oh, you’re Jim, he’s like, who are you? I said, I’m the guy whose call you’re not returning. I’m here to work. Wow. And he’s like, it doesn’t work like that. Tell me how it works. So I interviewed with him, he actually took me upstairs. And he liked me. He says, man, you’re a diamond in the rough, we got a lot to teach you. But I don’t make the final decision, you got to speak to the General Manager. And back then. And we’ve been in some of these meetings together. It wasn’t a manager of seven radio stations. It was one station owned by a gentleman or a woman, a totally different world. So he tells me I got to meet this guy, Dave Ross, who turned out to be my mentor. In radio in life, somebody that I just looked up to. And to make the story short, since I know we’re limited on time, in my interview, he says you’re 20 years old, you quit college, I’ve got a season staff Give me one reason why I should hire you. And I say, can I ask you one personal question. It’s like, of course, I said, you invest in the stock market. He’s like I do. I said, you should invest $3,000 in GE s and you’re either gonna make a fortune, or you’re gonna lose that three grand in three months. And David says, Can you excuse me for a second? Now it was a gambler, and he ran out of the office left me there for about 12 minutes. And I’m sitting there twiddling my thumbs, it comes back. There’s no such stock as genius. I said, Oh, no, that’s me. You’re gonna pay me $3,000 over three months. And if I don’t make it, you lost the money. But I’m pretty confident that I’m going to do a great job. And that was the beginning of my radio career in February of 87. And I started the next day, with seven phone books piled into my arms and I fell in I fell in love with the sales process, the whole art of radio and selling air. It’s really It’s amazing how it works the technology

Luis Scott 9:07

Yeah, that’s that’s that’s not I mean, that’s it’s it just shows yet to have a lot of guts to really get what you want. And you have to be willing to be. You can’t be ordinary. This show

Intro 9:18

has been brought to you by 8 Figure Firm Consulting. At 8 Figure Firm we help law firms turn into law businesses. Stop wasting your time with gurus who’ve never built a successful business at 8 Figure Firm will show you how to unleash the power of your law firm for personal and financial freedom. For more information, go to 8figurefirm.com. Welcome back to The Guts and Glory Show with your host, Luis Scott.

Luis Scott 9:54

You have to be willing to be outside of the box and really look for that opportunity. I will question though, because you mentioned 16. You know, when I was growing up, I used to see these athletic phenom. And it seemed like they were just born that way, right? They you know, you have the Bryce Harper’s of the world, who at 16 years old is on the cover of Sports Illustrated makes it to the pros, number one Rookie of the Year, like everything just falls into place for them. And we never really talk about the business world phenom that are 1516 years old and become incredibly specialized in a specific area of business, like you have in in radio. And my question is, do you think that you were born for this? Or do you think that the passion developed as you got older? Because there’s a lot of people wondering, what is my passion? What am What am I here to do in life? And you seem so excited when you talk about radio, there’s so much energy that exudes from you. So were you born with this? Or was this something that was developed?

Gary Sarner 10:51

So I absolutely 100% believe that I was born to be in sales, I was taught how to actually help people. And I learned a really, really hard lesson also at 16. Because I was very fortunate. I grew up in a household where my folks were well off, and I had a silver platter, but I did work. And I worked in my dad’s stereo store on Peachtree and far. Right down the street from where we are. Uh huh. Right down the street. It doesn’t look anything like it did back then. Or it was an up system. So as a customer walked in the doors, the salespeople had their turn with the customer. And it was my turn it was my up and way back when people at gas stations pump the gas for you. So I don’t know what you call those overall uniforms that they wore. But this guy walked in, in one of the gas station am Amoco, I’ll never forget it Amoco, and it was greasy and dirty. And just No, I want to talk to this guy. You take it? Well, Luis, this gentleman spent $30,000 on a Nakamichi stereo system with Polk Audio speakers just it’s a massive sale. And the guy that made the sale was so excited, right? Of course, he ran to my dad’s office after the deal was done. And I’m never my father came out on the sales floor. And he grabbed me by the ear and dragged me to the back of the warehouse. He says, you stupid little fucking son of a bitch. Who the hell do you think you are? Wow, no better than anybody else in the world, you are very lucky that you lead a privileged life. But you will never ever, ever again, under my guys judge a human being by the way they look or you will never work here another day. And you know, I look back at it at 57. And I’ve looked back at that story many times over my career, it changed it changed who I was. I never again, Judge. I mean, look, there are people that are good looking, that are not good looking. And we still have that you’re still attracted to people. But when it came to business, I learned to just help people give information and goodwill comm somehow,

Luis Scott 13:20

I believe that I mean, whatever you put into the world, you’re gonna get back. I’m a solid believer in being generous with your time, your money, your the fruits of your labor, whatever it is that you have, the more you give that out, the more you get back. You know, I used to. I used to complain when I went to restaurants because I was a generally a good tipper. And I would give good tips, but I seem to continuously have bad service with people. And I remember one time Rachel came to me and she said, You know, sometimes it feels like you’re getting bad service and I get it and it sucks when you get bad service, especially when you’re a good tipper. But have you ever wondered that maybe the generosity you’re giving in tips is the reason that you get to go out to eat so frequently, like that’s what you get back, you get back the blessing of being able to go out to eat. And I think that, that as long as you’re generous with your time and the information, you’re going to get back people who like you, who appreciate you who think that that you’re changing them and their life and their family and making a difference. And I think you you are making a difference, especially when it comes to helping people grow their business. And so this is a good segue into the question. What is it that radio does for businesses? How can people leverage radio the way we have in the way other firms around the country have to really maximize their growth?

Gary Sarner 14:43

It’s interesting, you know, speaking to you a lawyer who owns a phenomenal law firm, as well as an amazing coaching business. I have other clients that you work with who just they wouldn’t not do anything without speaking to you first, which is a testament to you and your team. But every business is different. So we’re going to stick to the legal world because I do consider myself a legal marketing expert in radio and television radio is that top of the funnel for a law firm, the internet is the bottom of the funnel for a law firm. So where we always hope that somebody is going to do a branded search to find the firm in the market that they’re in, that is not always the case, no matter how much branding you do. And we’ll take the biggest firm in the country that spends more money than anybody else out there. Morgan Morgan, are the people.com Well, guess what, they’re only getting still a small percentage of the pie. Yeah, with all that money that they’re spending. But what does happen for a Bader Scott, or for a web browser, or an antigen, Levine or Morgan Morgan, when somebody gets into that accident, and it’s only 2% of the people, if they did not do the branded search for the firm they’re looking for they are now doing a search for an accident attorney, a car wreck, attorney, whatever, slip and fall, but if you aren’t branding your business, why the hell would anybody click on you now, referrals are crucial to every business from mine to yours, you take great care of people, they will send the world to you. Somebody makes that search at the bottom of the funnel, and you don’t have a brand and you’re not up there with the LSAS the GM B’s, your your pay per click, and you’re doing a great job with SEO. You’re number 1313. Yeah, so I will say with 100% conviction that all the brands and law firms that I work with are getting more searches branded than they ever did before. I’m going to I’m going to tell a story after which I don’t even know if Seth told you or did not but they’re clicking on the PPC. They’re clicking on the names that they know first before unbranded for

Luis Scott 17:09

I agree with that. And what I’ve always told people is that a branded search is already in the in the mental space of trusting you so you, if somebody comes to a website, and they give you a restaurant experience I like because I think restaurants are very comparable to what we do. If I go online, and I go to a new city that I look up restaurants, best best Mexican food, I’m having to judge it from reviews, but I don’t know them. Right. So I’m having to trust other people and just hope that it turns out okay, but if somebody had mentioned just the name, just to mention the name go to you know, Rosie does, which which is a restaurant in in San Antonio, and go to receitas. As soon as I go online, and I see that Rosita has has a 4.7 I trust it instantaneously, because I had already heard the brand. Even if the person who told me the brand wasn’t even a credible source, the fact that they mentioned the brand, gives me instant credibility when I see it online. And so I believe that branding actually simplifies the sales process. It’s the preconditioning it makes the sales so much easier. And I think that that’s what it’s done for us is that it has completely transformed the way we’re viewed in the marketplace and online. Because the person has trust when they see the name. And now they’ve tied the name to the web search.

Gary Sarner 18:18

I know you follow me as well on social media, and I posted something the other day and I said, Gary Vee is finally starting to speak like me, I saw that I saw that. And the brand is more important than anything but you’re not going to make the sales without the brand. So if you build your brand, the sales will come Yes. And in your business, the legal business, the legal side of the business, the name Bader Scott means everything, I believe

Luis Scott 18:46

that and the more people know the name, the more people hear the name, the more repetitive the name becomes in the marketplace, the more leads we get, the better the leads are, the more trusted we are, the more likeable we are, all those things are influenced by that, that that brand name.

Gary Sarner 19:01

So you remember when we did the second media party, and this is something that’s unique to what I do with my clients, because as as important as it is for the investment that you make in your marketing, the relationships you have with your broadcast partners is so crucial. And most clients treat the media like crap because they’re spending a lot of money. I will not work with a company or a law firm where they’re going to treat people like shit their broadcast partners. We do ask for a lot from them. So we had our second media party and you and Seth were up there and Seth talked about the growth 100% Growth and he saw out of the corner of his eye, a smirk on my face because I was genuinely happy for you guys flew back to Miami. And he calls me the next day because I did some digging. It’s those LSAS we got 150 leads from the LSAS that month TASIS not leads K So yeah, I said, Seth, do me a favor. I said, I want you to call 15 people, did he ever tell you the story? Dumb, I haven’t heard of this. So I asked him to call 15 People that became clients at Bader Scott in August of 2022. And just to make a long story short, he calls me up that night, he says, damn you, nine of them said, can’t get away from you on the radio, three of them said billboards, and three said TV. And I said to him, if you sit and look at that file, Vine on your phone every single day, you’re gonna drive yourself nuts. I said, marketing, what you do socially, what you do on radio, what you do on television, what you do in your billboards, what you do in the community, you guys are community stewards set, it all works together, the growth that’s happened for your firm is by excuse my French, you put your balls on the table, which was the investment, you had patience, and you’re seeing the fruits of it all. And I would imagine, and I with a lot of conviction and confidence, three years from now, when you look at how you manage the business, how many more cases you’re doing each and every month, your average fee is going to go up each year, because you’re going to do better as a law firm, taking care of your clients doing great legal work with your team. And look, I know you guys pretty intimately. When it comes to business, you guys treat your team like gold, the way they should be treated. And every single person matters. They might not matter in the same percentage of what happens on a day to day, but every single person has plays a role to the success of the organization. And the more marketing you do any law firm. I’m not talking about Bader Scott, the more people are going to come to the firm, then it takes your intake department to be able to actually get them to sign up. And then it takes great lawyering, great paralegals, great case manager, I mean, all of it communication with doctors, your clientele lawyers, client tells you, they don’t even they don’t understand what you guys do. And you know what the misnomer is. Everybody talks, not everybody, so many law firms talk about getting people paid money, that’s what’s in their head, I think we do things a little different. Because for me, for me, it’s about the 2% of your clientele, clients that have been critically injured, catastrophic accidents, even death, where these people’s lives would not be put back together without great representation. And whether that’s Bader Scott, or another law firm in Atlanta or any other market out there. So for me, it’s about that and helping those people who really could never, ever, and that’s what I love about this business, you’re fishing for 2% of the people. So you have 4 million people in Atlanta, maybe it’s 6 million now. But if 2% get injured, it’s 120,000 accidents a year. Do you know how many law firms are are in Atlanta that practice personal injury?

Luis Scott 23:16

I mean, a lot. 1000s Yeah.

Gary Sarner 23:19

1000s 1000s That is why marketing, I guess we just went full circle. It’s so important. You’ve got to stand out above 1000s of your competitors, whether you consider them competition or not. And no market across the country is any different than yours. And I agree with that. I

Luis Scott 23:41

tell people that all the time because they they’ll tell me Well my markets so different in this it’s a no it’s everything’s the same people are predictable. You just You just gotta keep you just gotta you haven’t done it. That’s why That’s why you think the markets different? I have a question, though, about messaging, because you talked about, you know, putting your your voice out there. And one of the things that I think we struggled with and a lot of firms struggle with is what do we say when we’re on the radio? What is it that we actually say? How does a person develop a message where does that come from?

Gary Sarner 24:06

So I will tell you that I have actually written 1000 of the worst radio commercials ever written. Okay, it takes a special mind creative mind to to do this and put it together to make sense. But I will tell you this when 2% of the people need you, that means 98% could give two craps about what you’re talking about. Now, if I wanted to sell you my Mont Blanc pen on the radio, I could get a commercial written make it’s so exciting that this pen is going to change your life and get you to go buy it and we could spend to keep it simple $1,000 And let’s just say the pen costs $10 We wouldn’t have to sell Avenger pens to make our money back. And real quickly. We figure out our ROI. But when 98% of the people hear what you’re talking about and don’t need you, what do we want to put in listeners head It’s who you are, what you do, and how to reach you, every everything else in the middle of it, whether it’s car accidents, slip and fall, medical malpractice, nursing home, you do all those things, but nobody cares until what, what they have to know who you are until they care, that moment of truth. You’ve built a brand, what you do and how to reach you.

Luis Scott 25:19

So the simplified answer that you just gave as a formula is name, how to reach you, who you are, or what you do,

Gary Sarner 25:27

who you are, how to reach. That is, that is at the end of the day, I want you to think about this for a second. Another thing I posted several weeks ago, because people like us that are listening or watching this will sit there and say, I don’t listen to the radio. And if you were to ask 100 people, random people just walk up to him. Do you eaten McDonald’s? What percentage do you think would say no,

Luis Scott 25:50

if you eat at McDonald’s? I mean, 50% would say no, 

Gary Sarner 25:53

it’s over 80% that would say no, because it’s embarrassing to say.

Luis Scott 26:00

I don’t actually eat at McDonald’s. So I mean, I would say no, but it would be a legitimate No, I haven’t eaten a McDonald’s since I was

Gary Sarner 26:06

Okay, but have you had a coffee or an ice cream or nothing? I’ve never

Luis Scott 26:11

had anything from McDonald’s since I was 16. But I’m gonna legitimate No, I’m gonna let

Gary Sarner 26:15

your special so then if you ask the same 100 people, if they listen to the radio, because of the way information and technology is today, we have choices to consume media the way we want to, and I do this everywhere I go. And people say now don’t listen to the radio. Okay, but if you had a listen to one station, what station would you listen to? And for shits and giggles? Oh, I listen to the river. I would listen to the river. Oh, really? Could you name one DJ on that radio station, oats, Cadillac, Jack, I’m making the name up.

Luis Scott 26:51

I don’t Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good DJ name.

Gary Sarner 26:54

So all of a sudden we went from I don’t listen to the radio, to I actually have a favorite radio station. And I can name a jock. An on air host on it. People don’t realize their choice is their playlist, their choice is their podcast, their choices, whatever they want at that moment. But you are a great example to see. Because you spend your money bottom in the funnel with your SEO, PPC, you have social media and predominantly radio for your law firm, right? And you’ve grown 100% In the first year, because it all works together. I agree. I can’t sit here and take the credit. What I will take credit for because this is what we’re good at him at at my firm is we know how to buy the radio because I worked in radio for 35 years, and not buying cost per points in cost per 1000. Were buying a relationship with each stations audience. And if you want to know how you got to talk to me.

Luis Scott 27:59

I love it. I love it. I mean, this has been so impactful. I think that anybody who’s listening can hear the passion and excitement that comes from from what you do and how you help firms do it. I love for listeners to have an opportunity to get in touch with you experience the difference that having true advocate on their side negotiating for them. And one of the things that I always tell people is it never just because you can you can do an oil change doesn’t mean you should do an oil change on your car, you should let a mechanic do that. And so unless you’re a mechanic, you should not be changing your oil. And unless you’re you’ve been in the radio industry 35 years, or in any industry, you probably shouldn’t be managing your own marketing and you shouldn’t be managing your own relationships because you don’t know what you don’t know. So turn it to the experts turn it to people like you who can actually help them do that. So how would they get in touch with you? If they wanted to get more information

Gary Sarner 28:53

before they get in touch with me? I heard something great the other day. You know what the fastest way to get a million dollar settlement is for a law firm. No, to have a $2 million case. Got it. And if you put me as a radio guy on the phone, with State Farm, Geico progress any of these people and they offered me a million dollars, I’d be thrilled for the client you on the other hand, and professionals like you across the country would figure out how do we get policy limits or what or whatever is missing. So in radio or TV or billboards, or even social media, lawyers, law firms want to case in the worst way and they will go to any lengths and listen to just about anybody and take a chance. I will tell you that out the professionals that you speak to speak to other lawyers like you who have had success with vendors like me, I’m not the only one. There’s a lot of great vendors out there. Sure, but that referral that matters so much to the law firm is the same referral that means so much to us as mentors, whether it’s in the digital space for the over the air space or the billboard space. Yes. If you want to speak with me, I am available whenever my eyes are open. I only sleep five hours a day, Gary@roi360plus.com. Our website ROI360plus, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, I’m everywhere tick tock.

Luis Scott 30:34

Again, make sure we’re gonna put everything in the show notes just to make sure that people can get in touch with you. And Gary, I appreciate you being on Do you have a closing thought or word for us today?

Gary Sarner 30:47

Well, first, I’m grateful for you as as a friend, as a business partner. And now as a guest on The Guts and Glory Show. I’m always grateful for these opportunities. And I love to tell stories. And I love to listen to people and I truly want to help people just like you do. I don’t change lives. I change businesses, you change lives. Well,

Luis Scott 31:15

we’re all working together to make this place a better place. So I love it. Gary, thank you for being on the show. Really excited about the information and I know this is going to change someone’s business and ultimately change your life. You’ve been listening to The Guts and Glory Show.

Outro 31:29

You’ve been listening to The Guts and Glory Show for more. And to learn more about Luis hit the website at Luisscottjr.com for consulting opportunities 8figurefirm.com. That’s the number 8figurefirm.com We hope you’ve enjoyed the show. Make sure to like rate and review and we’ll see you next time on The Guts and Glory Show